Memelab

Memelab was originally a group of memeticists based in Bristol who met together regularly to talk about memes, evolution, human nature, and other related topics. We usually met in Sue Blackmore’s garden, about once a month or so from early 1998. In the winter we squashed into the turret on top of the house. We stopped for a while in 2001/2002 and started again in 2006 with the addition of Alan Winfield and Owen Holland. Although we carried out only a few experiments as a group, the discussions we had contributed to many of our publications on memetics.

Memelab

Larry Bull, Nick Rose, Susan Blackmore, Paul Marsden

(with experimental animals).


Memelab Diary

Memelab 2019 with Sue Blackmore
Memelab 2019 at Sue’s house in Devon.
Left to right: Jolyon Troscianko, Alan Winfield, Sue Blackmore, Alex Thornton, Alex Mesoudi, Emma Rosenfeld and Richard Dawkins
Memelab 2019 (17-18 August)

This Memelab, at our house in Devon, took a new approach. My son, Jolyon Troscianko, and his wife Emma Rosenfeld are both biologists working at the Falmouth campus of Exeter University where there is a lively group studying cultural evolution. Two of these researchers were able to come for this weekend, Alex Thornton and Alex Mesoudi. We also had Alan Winfield robotics expert from Bristol, and Richard Dawkins (creator of the term ‘meme’ of course). Jolyon and Emma made meals (that’s our lunch in the photo), as did my husband Adam Hart-Davis.

 

The main question I wanted to address was this – I asked “Is memetics the same as conventional cultural evolution theory (which is now growing fast), or different? If they are the same, I might as well give up on memetics! And are there testable predictions that would discriminate between them?”  After our discussions, I remained happily convinced that the two approaches are different because memetics treats memes as replicators in their own right whereas, almost without exception, cultural evolution theorists do not. We need much more research, but Alex told us about Hofhuis and Boudry’s work on witch trials which suggests ways to find out whether memetics makes different predictions from conventional gene-based theories.

 

We discussed imitation in other species, whether true imitation is needed for cumulative culture, the possible memetic origins of language, artificial culture in robots, racism and zenophobia, and the possibility of a third replicator, tremes. We shared so many ideas that I think everyone went away having learned a lot and I was greatly encouraged – though the answer to the big question remains elusive.


Memelab 2015 (18-19 April) information to follow.
Dan Dennett, Sue Blackmore and Richard Dawkins at a Memelab in Devon, 2015

Memelab 2014 (1- 2 November) information to follow.

Memelab 2014 (21-23 March)

We met at Sue and Adam’s house in Devon again, and on the first evening Pascal cooked a delicious African dish of lamb, from lambs that had once been in our field. And afterwards he taught us to play the brilliant game of “Evolutionary” – a kind of Pictionary-type game that gave us enormous fun (and fury).

Alan Winfield, Stevie Smith, Martin Farncombe, Jolyon Troscianko, Emma Rosenfeld, Pascal Jouxtel, Marina ?
Stevie is the victim in “Evolutionary”

If I remember correctly – one person goes out of the room while everyone else chooses a target idea or object. The chosen player comes back in and draws four different sketches on the board. Everyone else discusses which of the four is least like the target. That drawing is then rubbed out and the player draws something else. The player who needs the fewest drawings to get the answer is the winner. I seem to remember that Jolyon got it right in just 2 goes while the rest of us were taking 5 or even 10 tries. Just luck!

Once everyone else had arrived on Saturday, we tackled some huge topics. Alan asked what is the actual energy cost of creating a human and, considering sun capture, our power generation and energy available over 4.5 billion years, concluded “It’s colossal”!

Stevie asked “Is sustainability still possible?” and whether we can find ways to increase empathy before it’s too late. He described the online space game he is developing to measure and encourage meme-cooperation.

Jolyon explored ways of measuring the success of memes, considering fidelity, population size, different measures of fitness, and pondered possible equivalents of r and k-selection, or punctuated equilibrium for memes. Martin said Joly’s equation was similar to Heylighen’s, leading to

Roast dinner, Emma, Stevie, Pascal, Jolyon, Adam, Martin, Alan and Marina.
Dinner at Memelab 2014

much discussion including about the importance, or not, of stability.

Emma showed us a new Internet meme – a craze for taking selfies without make-up that was co-opted by Cancer Research to get people to give £3, leading to a discussion of virtue-signalling, honest signals for altruism,

Martin discussed the stability of national cultures and how they are passed on, with many slides showing the differences between multicultural business teams and how the differences are often ignored. He asked how the notion of niches applies in culture. We discussed Sterelney’s ideas about cultural and informational niche construction, and Martin said (apropos Boyd and Richerson’s claim that memes are not replicators)  “We know memes are replicators because they can jump from niche to niche”.

Marina presented some ideas for a talk she is giving on evolutionary psychology. She thinks that memetics suffers because top people in other disciplines think they understand it when they don’t.

Pascal Jouxtel - a Frenchman having a proper Devon cream tea.
Pascal Jouxtel – a Frenchman having a proper Devon cream tea.

Alan Winfield, Jolyon Troscianko, Sue Blackmore, Martin Farncombe, Stevie Smith in the woods. Memelab 2014
Alan, Joly, Sue, Martin and Stevie out in the woods.

Pascal talked about organisations as living things. He presented his PhD work to us, considering the definition of a meme and questioning what allows us to say that any memes are the same or different.

I was nervous speaking on Sunday morning because I was preparing for a seminar at the Santa Fe Institute. Dan Dennett was the organiser and had asked each of us to present the ideas of another. I was to do Nicolas Claidiere which involved more of the difficult Godfrey-Smith diagrams we had all discussed before. But this went fine and people suggested we have another Memelab soon where I could report back on the event – hence our next meeting.

We had proper Devon cream teas and a great roast dinner cooked by Jolyon and Emma. Thanks to them and to Adam for looking after us all so well. And we had walks in the fields and woods nearby, as well as up on Dartmoor on the final day.


Memelab 2013 (15 March)
Adam Hart-Davis (Sue’s husband), Jolyon Troscianko (her son) and Dan Dennett, crossing the swamp on our Memelab walk.
Adam Hart-Davis (Sue’s husband), Jolyon Troscianko (her son) and Dan Dennett, crossing the swamp on our Memelab walk.

In 2013 we welcomed Dan Dennett, Larry Bull, Stevie Smith, Jonnie Hughes, Alan Winfield and Marina Strinkovsky, Jolyon and Emma (who looked after us and cooked). It was pouring with rain and cold!

Dan and his wife, Susan, arrived on Friday and we had a long tea with Dan saying words are the most important memes, they are virtual machines and like Java Aplets can run on any brain already loaded with e.g. English. Neurons have been tamed, like feral animals that revert to wild-type.

Over breakfast the next morning Dan and I had an intense and very useful talk about free will. We have always disagreed on this. I think Freedom Evolves should be called Choice Evolves because I say our will is not free and can never be, even if we evolve to have more abilities and choices. From this significant conversation I came to conclude that Dan rejects ideas like mine (and e.g. Sam Harris) because he’s so afraid of the consequences of people not believing in it. I continue to disagree.

All the others arrived later on Saturday.

Dan gave a long talk based on the evolutionary diagrams of Peter Godfrey-Smith. I think we all found this hard to understand and struggled to relate the ideas clearly to memetics.

Discussions underway at Memelab 2013.
Discussions underway at Memelab 2013.

Jonnie talked about his book On the Origin of Tepees, showing how designs evolved by imitation, variation and selection.

I showed a collection of recent viral Internet memes. We nearly got together to make our own Haarlem Shake video but Richard was horrified by the idea and somehow we never managed it. We all discussed reasons why these memes did so well.

In the evening we played a game that Stevie has invented as part of his work to expand the circle of compassion as the world faces crises. Then later, just Jolyon, Dan and me survived to play a word game Dan taught us – ‘Frigate Bird’ in which you steal other people’s letters. (Dan and Susan had once taught this game to Adam and me when we were all on a ‘Skeptics’ Cruise’ together, Dan and me as lecturers – a fearsome game that I could never master.)

Sunday included Larry’s session, explaining his latest computer simulations and models using two replicators of different speeds. The fall in fitness of the first replicator is very fast as the second speeds up, providing evidence to support my idea (in Meme Machine) that memetic drive led to increased brain size. Both Dan and Richard seemed impressed by this work.

Dinner time with Larry Bull, Stevie Smith, Dan Dennett, Susan Dennett, Jolyon Troscianko, Jonnie Hughes, Emma Rosenfeld, Richard Dawkins and Sue Blackmore.
Dinner at Memelab 2013

Dan Dennett, Richard Dawkins, Sue Blackmore, Emma Rosenfeld, Jolyon Troscianko and Larry Bull out in the fields.
Dan Dennett, Richard Dawkins, Sue Blackmore, Emma Rosenfeld, Jolyon Troscianko and Larry Bull out in the fields.

The final session was Stevie on memes and self, why the rational self is only the tip of the iceberg and why we are reluctant to dig deeper. This interested me as both Stevie and I are long-time Zen meditators. Joly suggested the self evolves because of a bottleneck – Dan says that’s your mouth. We all got into arguments on free will and responsibility again. Dan saying the boundary between ‘me’ and my body is there for a good reason. I got the impression that few, if any, of us agreed with Dan about free will. Jonnie thought a paradigm shift is imminent.

Just a few of us remained after lunch for a walk up on Dartmoor (only a few miles from here) discussing the evolution of layers of hardware and software – and enjoying the wonderful views now the rain had stopped.


Memelab 2012 (24-26 February)
Walks in the Devon countryside
Walks in the Devon countryside

The first memelab at Sue and Adam’s house in Devon. As people live far away, memelabs have taken on a new life as whole weekend events with everyone staying the night. This year we welcomed: Richard Dawkins, Rachel Cohen, Jonnie Hughes, Daniel Riley, Alan Winfield, Steven Smith and Martin Farncombe.

Rachel explained her ‘Chinese Whispers’ drawing project and we all had a go at copying drawings. We discussed whether there can be any equivalent of a germ line for memetics and if so how experiments like this could be designed to test it. Richard suggested an operational test on the drawings would be to see if people could reproduce the actual sequence of copying.

Steve explained how the concept of ‘sustainable development’ has deteriorated. Can memetics help us find a way to get global agreement in time to avoid planetary disaster? Richard suggested the memetic idea of getting ‘sacrificing self for the future’ to go viral. Sue explained how her attempt to give up flying for ever came to a sad end after 5 years ‘I’m giving up on sacrifice’. Most agreed ‘We’re fucked’.

Discussions round the fire – see the attempts at Chinese junks scattered around the room.
Discussions round the fire – see the attempts at Chinese junks scattered around the room. 

Imitating moves on an improvised twister mat
Sue imitating moves on an improvised twister mat

Richard pursued the separation between germ line and phenotype. Origami is a good example (as in the Foreword to Meme Machine. It is self-normalising – as are words of a known language. I would say it entails ‘copy-the instructions’ not ‘copy-the-product’. So we all learned how to make an origami junk. Martin and Daniel made mutants. I still have mine. With drinks in the evening we tried out Daniel’s Twister game, imitating his positions.

A walk on Dartmoor for those who stayed for the final afternoon.
A walk on Dartmoor for those who stayed for the final afternoon.

On Sunday, Alan talked about the emergence of artificial culture in societies of robots, as a way of exploring the mechanisms of culture creation. His robots watch each other and imitate movements i.e. embodied imitation spreads as memes.

Martin talked about how rumours go viral, using Markov chains to model beliefs such as WMDs in Iraq. He showed the rise, fall and variations of the viral photos of ‘Tigers on Primrose Hill’ and how they all began from a hoax.

Finally, I talked about my developing ideas on temes. I’d been invited to write a short TED book on Genes, Memes and Temes (15k words). Richard suggested I should call the third replicator ‘thremes’. We discussed the minimum conditions needed for a third replicator.

 


Memelab 2011 (8 October)

Sue Blackmore, Alan Winfield, Martin Farncombe, Daniel Riley and Jonnie Hughes.

Since Sue moved to Devon in 2008, memelabs had to change. In 2011 Alan Winfield invited us to his house where we were joined by Jonnie Hughes with his new book On The Origin of Tepees, and my student, Daniel whose project is correlating creativity with imitation ability – measuring that by getting people to copy positions on a twister mat.

We discussed the ever-present question of why there is still no science of memetics. We need to find a use for it!

Quote of the day (Jonnie) “We are at the Aristotle stage”.

Alan said back pain is memetically transmitted! Is this so?

Alan showed us the latest robot video and ‘memographs’ showing the evolution of simple ‘dances’ copied by one robot from another – very exciting! We discussed types of imitation, diversity and stability in the meme pool, and the potential effects of rewards for the robots. What would rewards be? Energy? Being imitated? What different would this make?


Memelab 2008 (14 January)

This time we were joined by Andrew’s supervisor, philosopher of science, Samir Okasha. We talked about his work on levels of selection, which is so relevant to speculations about memes, and about gene-culture co-evolution. We discussed Peter Godfrey-Smith’s ideas on Darwinian populations and natural selection, and intragenomic conflict by analogy with memes. Someone mentioned that there is a Creationist Zoo in Bristol, which I hadn’t realised. We decided we must have a Memelab outing to visit it (but somehow we never managed that!). This led to a discussion about when it’s worth arguing with idiots.


Memelab 2007 (6 November)

This time we were joined by student Andrew Atkinson, who shared notes on his proposal for a PhD on religious memes. He described his Irish background, religious upbringing, and reading The God Delusion leading to his current plans. We discussed the familiar problem of using analogies, including religions as viruses. Alan related these ideas to cladistics, and family trees, or bushes, of meme evolution.
Is the C of E falling apart? If so is it becoming less relevant, losing power? Is anything like that happening in Islam? The Roman Empire had many different beliefs and tolerance of others – ripe to be infected by an intolerant religion based on threats and promises? Does the God virus have properties other memeplexes don’t have, can you get rid of old memes, and where do they go?

Above all we need empirical research. We discussed the Beethoven Experiment, Alan’s robots and Larry’s abstract models.


Memelab 2007 (23 August)
Alan Winfield with two of his robots at the Bristol Robotics Lab
Alan Winfield with two of his robots at the Bristol Robotics Lab

We discussed Alan Winfield’s latest robots and the start of the Artificial Culture Project. These little robots are true teme machines because (a) they operate outside of human control and (b) they have all three – heredity, variation and selection. He emphasised that in this system selection occurs by necessity; it’s not programmed in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Memelab 2007 (31 July)
Alan, Marios and Stef, in our garden in Bristol

Alan, Marios and  Stef, in our garden in Bristol. Looks like we were eating the last of my birthday cake. Marios, with a degree in AI Engineering, said he wanted to shift into memetics. Stef was more interested in philosophy and music. We played about with musical memes and talked about the Beethoven experiment that Larry and I were doing.

I described my alternative to the Drake Equation, my speculations arising out of the idea of the third replicator, inspired by being invited to write a chapter for a book on culture in the cosmos! (this later led to my TED lecture). Ali – add  link to TED lecture.

Alan talked about his idea of creating culture in a very simple system – an artificial culture – building on the possibility of imitation in simple robots.

 


Memelab 2006 (July)

John Wilkins visited from Australia

John Wilkins visited from Australia

John Wilkins visited from Australia to discuss speciation, natural selection and how well the meme-gene analogy can be made to work. We also had a fine barbecue. He seemed seriously worried that our barbecue was right by the hedge and would set fire to it. I had to explain about our perpetually rainy English summers.


Memelab 2006 (13 June)

Sue, Larry Bull, Alan Winfield, Dave Rose, Owen Holland in our garden in Bristol. We discussed Boyd and Richerson’s work and why they don’t want to accept memes as a new replicator, and drew scribbly diagrams showing the limited space in which memes are beneficial to genes.

We talked about imitation (sexy idea) v memes (not), why imitation is not equivalent to replication because there are many other mechanisms, and Owen wanted to move away from Larry’s abstractions to discussing process.

Larry Bull, Sue Blackmore, Owen Holland
Larry Bull, Sue Blackmore, Owen Holland

Owen Holland and Alan Winfield sharing memes and wine in the garden.
Owen Holland and Alan Winfield sharing memes and wine in the garden.

 

Larry explored ways of modelling when there is a benefit to genes in having memes as well. Brain as cultural immune system. The problems of fidelity.

We talked about protomemes, whether stone tools were memes and when true imitation may have arisen. Larry described our brains as a cultural immune system and wondered when too many memes would become detrimental. There could be two strategies and maybe Neanderthals took alternative route. I think we drank a bit and my notes say, “Ride your memestorm!”.


Memelab 2006 (May)

Spiral Dynamics uses the term ‘meme’ but not in its original meaning – causing much confusion. In May 2006 Chris Cowan and Natasha Todorovic (right), who were teaching a course on Spiral Dynamics, came to visit and explore the differences.

Eric de Rochefort and Pascal Jouxtel (left), who attended the course, also visited memelab. Note the new animal !

Eric de Rochefort, Susan Blackmore and Pascal Jouxtel

Sue Blackmore, Chris Cowan and Natasha Todorovic

 


Memelab 2006 (22 February)
Alan, Sue, Larry and Owen, in our living room on a cold winter’s day.
Alan, Sue, Larry and Owen, in our living room on a cold winter’s day.

Over lunch time I went, with others, to visit Alan’s Bristol Robotics Lab and see his little robots and we had a great talk about artificial consciousness. Then in the evening we had Memelab with Owen, Larry and Alan. Larry talked about his latest ideas for modelling two replicators, making analogies with immune systems, and we discussed how this might explain the big human brain and Neanderthals’ brains. After a break , Alan explained his ideas on the possible emergence of imitation in robot swarms.

 

 

 

 


Memelab 2003 (October)

We were joined by Pascal Jouxtel in Bristol.

Here he is making meme soup in Sue Blackmore’s kitchen. Is there a memotype/phenotype distinction here?

 

 

 

 


Memelab 2000 (4-5 August)
Memelab Aug 2000
Left to right: Kevin Laland, Gillian Brown, Larry Bull, Sue Blackmore, Paul Marsden, Rob Clewley, Nick Rose, and Jeremy Kendal.

We were joined by a group from Cambridge who climbed trees and played table tennis as well as exchanging memes.


Over the years we’ve also enjoyed visits from (among others) …

Dr Derek Gatherer – Then Lecturer in Molecular Genetics in the School of Biomolecular Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University.

Rob Clewley – then at Bristol University, now at Center for Biodynamics, Boston University,